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The instant relationship... and the fade away
Hi ladies! I'm pretty much confident in my seduction/dating skills, but every once in awhile I completely forget everything I know.

I recently met a guy in my social circle. I wasn't interested in him at first, he isn't the hottest guy in the world and he is slightly overweight. Hell, there are even a few other flaws that were instantly noticeable. Instantly noticeable because we became instant cuddle buddies! This happened kind of by accident, friends had to sleep over and there wasn't really anywhere for him to sleep except my huge bed, and I was absolutely not worried about him making a move or me being tempted.

However, after a couple of group outings and dancing, of course he started to like me. I'm hot, and charming. And I continued to let him come sleep with me, with cuddling happening the third or fourth time. And then I started to like him back. He is extremely intelligent, considerate, and both soft spoken yet assertive. He makes it clear he is interested, and that is sexy.

Here are the background issues. He is shy... but not that shy. He is extremely nervous around me. I am considered a complete hottie in our group, and while he is not bad looking, he isn't considered as highly so that could be the deal. I know exactly how snotty that sounds by the way, but I want the details to be clear. We both just got out of long term relationships, that we both ended because we weren't in love with our partners. We share friends, so things could get awkward. And some of our friends are swingers, and one of them he was interested in the past, and he has recently fooled around with (right after he ended his relationship, and before he met me), and she seems to be jealous of our sudden strong chemistry, so now she is interested in him back. She is in an open relationship with another guy. Also, his best friends are mostly women.

Sounds like a lot of drama, and potential drama, yeah? One of the biggest red flags for me. But he is sexy to me, good looking, and like I said just one of the most considerate and intelligent men I have ever met. He seems to genuinely love being in my presence. He doesn't say much due to shyness, but he has stated this clearly.

We have been getting so close in the past few hang outs, like sleeping together (no sex), then spending the entire next day together. Holding hands. It's like an instant relationship, and one I feel like we both unspokenly decided to take seriously, instead of falling into a FWB situation due to our recent breakups. He doesn't pressure me for sex, and I'm not opposed to it, it's just that I realized that he is an amazing person and I didn't want to go that route. Our sleepovers are intensely passionate, beyond belief.

The last time we hung out I decided to initiate contact, which I normally do not do. But I made an exception because he is shy, and he made an attempt the day before. It was a great move, it was the most passionate and bonding night so far for us, and he was sad when I left him late the next day. He sent a text late that night telling me how glad he was that I invited him out, and how much he enjoyed our night and the next day we spent together.

I hoped he would ask me out for Vday, but he didn't. And then he skipped out on a group activity that night. I am sure he got my text I sent confirming I'd be there, but he didn't respond til the next morning. I then responded telling him it had been a fun night, and then that was it.

I haven't heard from him since. Of course, this was just two days ago so not that long, but we haven't hung out at all for nearly a week. Tomorrow will be exactly one week from the day I asked him to meet me out.

Now, I am pretty sure I know what is happening.

We have an instant relationship. There is no denying it, that is what we naturally fall into together. Yet he just broke up with someone, and I am sure he is completely in doubt about starting a new one so fast. There are hot girls for him that offer easy, commitment free sex. He feels extreme guilt for breaking it off with his ex.

So he is taking some space so that he does not fall into a relationship with me right now, and also to not lead me on.

I know all of this, I feel like I have some great men skills. I know to absolutely not call him. Besides, I am "lucky" in a sense that I know I will see him again in group outings, and have the chance to display my charm and alluringness in the future.

But even knowing what to do and not to do...


So I guess this is just me asking for reassurance, perspective, and needing to vent and let it out as it happens.

Nice to meet yall, lol. I really like the site and the forum, I feel like it is above average in advice for dating and dealing with men.

Anyone have any opinions or words of encouragement here?

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Ella -welcomeSmile

You sound like you have all figured Smile Nice to hear from a confident woman....I guess there is nothing to be concerned about...things do unfold sort of naturally although quite quickly.....the only thing is - given the fact that you all have light approach toward sex -please ensure -that you perceive what is between you two -the same way ....meaning -that you both are on the same page
also, although he is the one "less atrractive" does not mean you should "help"him a little bit...green light is fine...but thats about it ...as even the most atrractive woman can overdo it....and somehow her atrractivness is no longer so obvious....please dont take it in a wrong way. I admire your confidence Smile
Enjoy the time you two spending in the group- ...but perhaps without announcing that you going to be there...basically I wouldnt do anything what will make me feel awkward if things between you two will not work ....
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The following 1 user says Thank You to roxana for this post:
Mim (02-26-2013)
Welcome Ella! One of the best man skills to have is pacing, especially in the beginning. Putting up some resistance. It takes two to make an instant relationship.

Also you stated that you "recently" met this man. Do you really know him yet?

That is the lines that I would be thinking on right now. If it were me I would be thinking, "I don't really know him yet, so why should it be driving me so crazy?"
“Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it.”  Rumi

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The following 1 user says Thank You to Carolina Robin for this post:
Mim (02-26-2013)
I agree with Robin. You really don't know this guy that well yet, and we have seen many times where women on this board assume a relationship, but generally it ends up them projecting their desire for one on a man, rather than stepping back and assessing the situation for what it is.

Right now, it seems to me its you two spending time together casually. Unless a man demonstrates with actions and words to back that up that he wants a relationship, I would assume otherwise. For example, he will call you, text you, make dates with you, and will discuss an actual relationship with you.

You do not have that with this man.

It doesn't matter what the potential reasons are; the bottom line is he obviously doesn't feel he is in a relationship with you.

That doesn't mean he may not want to be at some point, but you need to step back, quit making assumptions, and let him decide for himself and demonstrate whatever he may decide.
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The following 2 users say Thank You to zen2475 for this post:
MEEEz (03-28-2013), Mim (02-26-2013)
Hi ladies!

When I say "instant relationship", I don't mean that I think we are in one or even that I want one. We both just got out of serious long term relationships, like last month. What I mean is that when we are together, it's like there is no casualness. It's very serious. I think it's hard to explain. Even just the way we sleep together, and then when we are hanging out. It's extremely couple-y. Our friends comment on it, it's quite apparent to everyone. And I think he realizes it too, and feels extremely confused by it. Which is why he is pulling away, and I actually respect that. He is newly single, has a lot of opportunity for casual sex now, and a lot of confusion and baggage from his previous relationship. By the way, for reference he is late 20's I am early 30's. So we are in a young group of friends.

Also, I do NOT take sex casually, and I don't think he does too much either, which is why we have not had sex yet. But we both did just get out of relationships that lacked a spark, so I think we are on the same page of desiring a fling that is not so serious, just not with each other. I mean if I did decide to take it there I am positive he would not turn it down, lol. But he seems to understand that there is a deeper connection between us, and is fine with taking it slow... and what am I even talking about... stopping it at the moment! There are people in our social circle who do take sex extremely casually and liberally however. Which is what I mean by him having options for that.

I definitely don't know him. We just met through our mutual friends last month. Exactly a month, I believe. But as corny as it sounds, I feel like I've known him forever, and he remarks how eerily well I know him, for having just met him. The first few times we slept together, we "overshared" quite a bit about our family life, past, and his past relationships. It was just like a river of information being exchanged, and even though I knew I should stop it was just gushing out! On both sides! He seemed to be overwhelmed by his own sharing, and I actually fretted quite a bit over that too, but now it's a non issue.

I agree on the attractiveness ideology. I know he finds me extremely attractive, and I enjoy presenting myself in a way that allows him and others to check me out, when we go out dancing and the such. I "let him" admire what he finds attractive about me, if that makes sense. I keep it quiet for the most part when it comes to admiring him, but I do make comments to let him know what I find attractive about him. I dole it out sparingly, more to encourage him when he seems particularly shy. I'm talking about unable to speak, hands sweaty shy at times. For instance, I compliment his intelligence ("You are such a nerd, and it is so attractive"), or how great it feels in his arms (after he made quite a few similar exclamations). I also tease him about being shy, to nudge him to step up to the plate, which has been working quite well. thanks for the reminder about how it all can change though if I am not careful... that's something I definitely need to keep in mind at this stage.

There is no confusion about whether or not we are in a relationship. We aren't, and I doubt he was expecting to find himself in a situation like this so soon. He has a lot of self doubt right now about himself and what kind of person he is. I think both of his previous long term relationships ended so badly, with them making him out to be a monster. He is confused, and he needs space. I can give it to him quite fine...

It just sucks!

As for an update, I've kept myself quite busy this past weekend. I even met two really cool, interesting guys. I utilize facebook, so I'm sure he has noticed I've been out living life, with a few new guy friends as well.

Friends talked me into going out last night, and wouldn't you know he happened to show up at the very end of the night, even though his friends had already taken off, and he had to be at work in a few hours. He was very drunk, which is one of the red flags about him. He doesn't cut himself off, and he drinks to overcome his shyness. I let him come back with me to my place, and we made out a bit and then slept. He missed work once again. I can tell he is feeling much more reserved, and confused. So I also remained a bit reserved, although still affectionate. I let him initiate everything. Including sleeping in, when at one point I think he had the thought to bolt early. I felt clingy, but instead of acting on it, I just kind of rolled over to my side of the bed and let him come to me, if he was going to. And he did.

Quick note here. If anyone is wondering why I let him come back with me so easily, it's because I do believe in creating an atmosphere and ideal for a man. I want to maintain in his mind that him and I go together pretty much automatically, and that his place is in my arms, together. At the same time, without "frying chicken", just basically a lot of sweet tea. I want him hooked on my sweet tea, so that all he can think about in time is fried chicken. Sneaky, I know. I am creating an addiction. So evil! So delightful. It's a fine line to walk though, to maintain and create the idea that you are not his, but also that he belongs with you.

Another thing I want to mention here, is that I think it is bad to have a man in your bed that you are not having sex with. This is a first for me, and I am kind of just going with it, how natural it feels. But I don't believe in torture, and it is becoming harder and harder (literally Wink ) to not have sex with him. So either we will really cool off on the amount of sleepovers without sex, or sex will very soon be added to the mix, depending on how he plays his cards here.

On with the update...

We walked for an hour towards his office, and he went in late. He was quiet as usual, with a bit of nerd talk, and a few personal stories.

He kissed me goodbye, and that is that right now.

I don't plan on contacting him at all, I can tell he needs space and time to sort himself out.

I appreciate having a place to sort all this out, ladies, expect me to update this often and vent too. I am feeling assured in my ideas on this whole thing right now, but I am sure there will be moments of weakness and of course all advice and perspective is completely appreciated. I will probably sound like a big know it all at times, and other times I will not know nothing at all lol.
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I was thinking about this a bit tonight and when I was feeling insecure, I read some articles on pulling away to reinforce my own thoughts on it. While there is always the idea that a man doesn't contact you because he isn't as interested in you as he should be, another theory seems to be that a man pulls away when he is overwhelmed by emotion. Like when he disappears suddenly after the most awesome and bonding time together... which is kind of what happened here. One article I read said that when this happens he usually springs back stronger. I am thinking this to be the case, because usually when we get to the bedroom, he is shy and I have to make some kind of remark, like "aren't you going to get comfortable?" But last night, as soon as we got in the door of my apartment, he was extremely passionate, like I had to say "whoa, give me a minute to take my coat off..."

I don't mean he was going for sex either, I'm talking embracing, and kissing my face, ect.

Still it was apparent the next day that he is confused/conflicted about what he is doing here with me, and what we are doing here. In talking about his exes, it is a real demon he has about how wrong they say he has done them. He has mentioned depression and insomnia in dealing with it. I think he is really worried that he is going to do something wrong here, and once again be the bad guy.

I haven't done crap with my day today except stew and reflect in this BS, my goal for tomorrow is to at least get a bunch of stuff done. I think I will set goals for myself in this thread, because I tend to do a little too much reflection sometimes. I set everything else aside just to stew and stew.

Thinking about going forth with him, I have decided that he won't be allowed here again when he is wasted drunk. And he has been wasted at least 4 out of the dozen times he has slept over, usually getting wasted in my presence except for last night when he showed up wasted. If he wants to be intimate he will have to face that and experience that sober. Not only that, but when I do decide to have sex with him, it won't be drunken sex, gross. And I can't keep having sleepovers without the sex, I'm like a starving animal over here, girls! So, I enjoyed and don't regret my decision to let him over last night, experiencing that passion when we first got home was intense and let's me know what is possible if I handle this correctly.

Not to mention at this point, and with his pulling away, a few no's and turn downs can't hurt anything. I haven't made it completely easy for him, I have a few funny stories in which he had to really step up to the plate to end up at my apartment. But I have never turned him down completely. I think now is the time. At least once or twice. He will have to demonstrate a little more effort and intention to get back into my arms... and then I can finally GET SUM, too.
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Again, you may want to take this time to really assess what you have with this man and what you can realistically expect. So far, you have known him for a short while and have had drunken sleep overs with no sex. Otherwise, there has not been anything that really resembles a relationship or dating.

I'm seeing a man who seems to have a problem with alcohol and is probably because of that is emotionally stunted. He seems to be a walking wounded type who is giving you excuses for his emotional distance and for who he is.

Pay very close attention to that.

I don't think he is in any place for a relationship, nor would he be someone I would consider for a relationship at this point.

Don't you think you deserve someone who is more emotionally available and demonstrative of his desire to actually be with you? That would mean having sober dates and being there for Valentines day. He would also express his emotions in a healthy way instead of near flagellating himself.
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It almost sounds like he's using you for company and hospitality? If he's just come out of a relationship, he might be feeling a bit shell-shocked and lonely and grateful for the attention.

It sounds like an excellent idea for you expect a bit more effort on his part before he stays with you again.

(02-19-2013, 08:30 AM)zen2475 Wrote:  Again, you may want to take this time to really assess what you have with this man and what you can realistically expect. So far, you have known him for a short while and have had drunken sleep overs with no sex. Otherwise, there has not been anything that really resembles a relationship or dating.

I'm seeing a man who seems to have a problem with alcohol and is probably because of that is emotionally stunted. He seems to be a walking wounded type who is giving you excuses for his emotional distance and for who he is.

Pay very close attention to that.

Thanks for the perspective. He does seem to be a bit "walking wounded" right now. I will point out that we've had about 12 sleepovers at this point, four of them he was drunk, not all 12. We have definitely been out together to eat and just hang out, and sometimes just to walk around. These are the times that I feel were the most bonding.

I also agree, probably neither one of us should be getting so close to each other at this point, as we just left long term relationships. He's done an ok job of demonstrating his desire to be with me or see me, especially as shy as he is, and I've made him jump through a hoop or two as well just to be sure. But he is only doing an OK job, when I know he needs to do better than ok.

(02-19-2013, 08:41 AM)Kanga Wrote:  It almost sounds like he's using you for company and hospitality? If he's just come out of a relationship, he might be feeling a bit shell-shocked and lonely and grateful for the attention.

It sounds like an excellent idea for you expect a bit more effort on his part before he stays with you again.

Perhaps. I agree, I have expected more effort, and got more effort, but not enough. And now with the pulling back, he is showing me he needs time to decide if he is ready and willing to pursue me seriously, and explore what is happening here.

I definitely think a man needs to be a man, and step up to the plate. Being shy is something that is endearing to me, but he still needs to man up in the end. I've felt that from the beginning.

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Even the most shy man will step up to the plate if they really want to.

When a man withdraws, it's not always because he is considering the enormity of his emotions.

I think you are doing a considerable amount of projecting here in that you assume he is taking this time to decide if he is ready to pursue on the level of intensity you desire. He has pretty much already demonstrated the intensity he is capable of within the context of this relationship with you. Men tend to pull away more if they feel they can not (read: will not) live up to what expectations they perceive are being imposed on them. You have clearly demonstrated what you want. If he really wanted to rise to the occasion, he would do so without falter. People tend to generally eschew what is not desirable to them and what they are not willing to do.

All you really know right now is that he has pulled back, and he is not present in your life at a level congruous to a man interested in having a real relationship.

You may want to think about just how much you are imputing your desires for this relationship onto this man in comparison to what is actually occuring.
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The following 2 users say Thank You to zen2475 for this post:
English Muffin (02-19-2013), Mim (02-26-2013)

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